Embracing the Coaches Journey: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Dr. Sherry Fluellen and Faisal EnsaunDec 18, 2023
Welcome to a transformative episode of the Coaches' Journey podcast, where Dr. Sherry Fluellen and Faisal Ensaun open up about the common struggle that coaches often face – accepting their evolving identity. Whether you're a newcomer in the coaching realm or advancing in your practice, the challenge of imposter syndrome can be a daunting presence. In this empowering conversation, Sherry and Faisal share their personal experiences, offering insights and practical strategies to navigate the journey of self-doubt.
Navigating the Coaches' Struggle:
Sherry and Faisal delve into the heart of the matter, discussing the pervasive issue of imposter syndrome among coaches. They explore how this challenge can affect both novice and seasoned coaches, emphasizing that it is a shared experience on the coaches' journey. Through their anecdotes, they shed light on the internal battles and self-doubt that can hinder personal and professional growth.
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The Power of Leaning Into Discomfort:
One key theme of the episode revolves around the transformative power of leaning into discomfort. Sherry and Faisal encourage coaches to embrace the challenges, acknowledging that discomfort is often a sign of growth. By sharing their own stories of pushing through discomfort, they highlight the resilience and strength that can be gained in the process.
Amplifying Strengths and Embracing Fluidity:
The hosts stress the importance of acknowledging and amplifying one's unique strengths. They discuss the fluidity of a coach's identity and how embracing change can lead to profound personal and professional shifts. Coaches are encouraged to align with their purpose and continuously evolve, fostering a sense of authenticity and confidence.
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Kickstart your online coaching business from the comfort of your home by subscribing to The Coaches Journey Podcast! If you're new to the world of coaching & eager to learn how to build a coaching business online, you're about to tap into a wealth of expert insights. Your hosts, Dr. Sheri Fluellen and Faisal Ensaun, bring an impressive 22 years of combined coaching and business experience to the table. Discover how to leverage the digital landscape to connect with your ideal client & how to build a sustainable, lucrative online coaching business. Everything you need starts when you push PLAY!
Strategies for Overcoming Imposter Syndrome:
Sherry and Faisal provide practical strategies for coaches to overcome imposter syndrome. They advocate for continuous growth and suggest filling calendars with coaching calls to accumulate evidence of capabilities. By aligning actions with purpose and consistently showcasing skills, coaches can build a strong foundation for their coaching businesses.
Join the Community of Action Takers:
The hosts invite listeners to join the Coaching Mastery Facebook group, a supportive community for coaches ready to conquer imposter syndrome and build thriving businesses. This community offers valuable guidance, shared experiences, and a network of like-minded individuals committed to making an authentic impact in the world of coaching.
Don't miss out on this insightful conversation that celebrates both the struggles and triumphs on the coaches' journey. Subscribe now to the Coaches' Journey podcast and become part of a community of action takers dedicated to making a genuine impact in the world of coaching.
Accepting your new identity as a coach is challenging.
Narrator: [00:00:00] You're listening to the coach's journey podcast, exposing the struggles and celebrating the successes in the life of coaches who are action takers and creating authentic impact in today's world. Whether you're just starting out, expanding your reach or exploding your impact, you're in the right place right now, stay tuned and be sure to subscribe to this podcast.
Narrator: Now, here are your hosts of the coach's journey.
Sheri Fluellen: What's up coaches nation. This is Dr. Sherry Fluellen with the coaching Mastery communities, amazing podcast that we do every week coming at you with new amazing contact content. This is the coach's journey podcast and I'm here with Faisal and son, my amazing co host. Hello. Today we are going to dig deep.
Sheri Fluellen: Dig deep into one of the biggest challenges that newer coaches have. But honestly, I don't even think it's new coaches. It's [00:01:00] every time that in our coaching practice, we level up in a way, whether it's leveling up and getting a new. Certification and some new training, working with a new set of clients, a new skillset.
Sheri Fluellen: There is always this nagging little challenge that just seems to always be there that we're going to talk about today. And that is the imposter syndrome. So we're going to tackle that today, because if you, in the last week, in the last month, in the last year, have really had some, some concerns, some challenges around feeling like you don't have what it takes to do this, or to do the next thing, or your self doubt, or you feel like, God, just, I'm not even worthy to do this.
Sheri Fluellen: Those are kind of all indicators that there is a mindset challenge that you're experiencing, maybe not a skill set challenge. All right, Faisal, how do you want to, how should we start unpacking this? [00:02:00] Yeah,
Faisal Ensaun: I'm, I'm so excited about this because I actually just went through a whole event around this. Like there were two days that I was two of the days were dedicated to this whole process of the stories in our head around our identity and all sorts of beliefs that we have that we hold on to.
Faisal Ensaun: But before I jump in for those who are listening for anybody who's listening to this we do have a community where our Facebook community is actually That gives you a lot of value. Make sure you join that. We should have the link somewhere under this. We also have a program that can support you to move forward.
Faisal Ensaun: We're an implementation community, which means that we actually hold your hand and take you to the finish line towards you building a profitable, but also Impact driven coaching business. And this is run by coaches. It's not some random business consultant or business owner or marketer that does this.
Faisal Ensaun: We're all actually coaches in this community and we've built businesses and we're working together to do this. So make sure you join that. Maybe we can start off because as a starting point, and [00:03:00] I liked how you said it, anytime we do something new, there will be like, it feels like, oh, it's not us because there's like, it's a new thing.
Faisal Ensaun: And a lot of times if you're not used to this process, we haven't done multiple things or you haven't paid attention to that pattern. When you jump in and it's the same with, by the way, real estate investors go through the same process. They're like, oh, I don't like they go through this long until they do it enough.
Faisal Ensaun: They go through this process of, oh, I feel like an imposter when I'm telling people that I'm an investor. I feel like an imposter when I'm telling people like I'm a coach. That is a normal thing. So we get alarmed by it, but that's a normal process of growth because the part of your identity, your ego wants you to be a certain way that you were when you try to grow, you're moving past that you're building a new identity.
Faisal Ensaun: So your reaction. Your ego's reaction to that will be is that I feel like an imposter. So that's something to like recognize that that's actually a positive thing. In fact, that's a cue that you're growing. And like [00:04:00] Sherry said, this happens every time for me, it happened when I jumped in as a coach. But just recently in the past couple of years, when I started showing up more as a business mentor, that was a huge shift for me.
Faisal Ensaun: Like I literally needed permission. Like, can I show up as a mentor as a business mentor? I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know if I have enough experience, but actually. It was just watching another business mentor who did it, who was also a coach. And I looked at him like, I don't think I need any more permission other than the fact that I need to decide.
Faisal Ensaun: And when I decided that, and I started doing it more, I became more used to it. I became more used to now I can call myself a business coach and a high performance coach, and I'm okay with that. But for a while, I was very uncomfortable with the idea of a business coach.
Sheri Fluellen: Yeah. And so first language is important, right?
Sheri Fluellen: What, what we call something matters. Because it is, it almost sets the framework for the thing that we're talking about. So first off, I would love to even just remove the word syndrome from this, [00:05:00] from the, from what people, how we refer to this because imposter syndrome, that sounds pretty scary. It's like going to the doctor and then telling the condition.
Sheri Fluellen: I know it's a medical condition. I have cancer. I have imposter syndrome. It's like, Oh, the world's crashing down. I need chemotherapy. Like, that's not what we're talking about. It's literally just self doubt. That's what, at the core of it, what I think is happening is there's self doubt around your ability to execute and do the thing that you're wanting to do.
Sheri Fluellen: And often that self doubt comes, well, it can come from a lot of places, but the most common one, I think, is just lack of experience. We have a lack of experience. Doing the thing, being a coach even I, I totally experienced this and still sometimes experience this. I have been a psychologist since 2007.
Sheri Fluellen: That's a long time. I have a PhD in helping people change. And yet when I pivoted into the coaching world, I felt like an [00:06:00] imposter in some ways. I had a lot of self doubt, like, how am I going to, you know, and, and, but yet from the outside, people are like, Oh, she's got this. There's no problem. I like she could help anyone.
Sheri Fluellen: And I get told this a lot, like, Oh, with your credentials. And yet inside, sometimes I still don't feel that way. So this is a common thing and it's just self doubt. And. When you move past the skill set. Okay. So maybe I've done this enough. Maybe I've got enough, you know, reps under, under my belt. And, and I do have some success and experience to kind of back up how I feel.
Sheri Fluellen: There's still a lot of other things that can come in to impact your self doubt and keep that self doubt present. So that's really all we're talking about is doubting yourself. And there are lots of strategies. And self awareness that can have, that can be helpful in moving past that self doubt, but even more than just moving past it is just moving in spite of it.
Sheri Fluellen: Like, even if it's still [00:07:00] there, who cares? Like do it anyway, the self doubt doesn't have to stop you or me from continuing to do the thing that we feel that we're being called to do.
Faisal Ensaun: I love that. That's such a profound point. And this is an odd thing about coaches. We try to try to work out everything in a deeper way.
Faisal Ensaun: So we'll spend hours and hours and hours. And then there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's an important process of trying to understand like why something is happening. But because we're so used to looking at it from that lens, we will spend a lot of time. Let me read another book and work through this.
Faisal Ensaun: Let me go to another workshop and see, like, let me go through another visualization. Let me go through some more therapy. Then I can figure out how this is will not stop him, but there's a much, much more direct and faster way. And I'll tell you a story. So because I've gone through this process, when my wife started doing more coaching sessions, she's a coach as well.
Faisal Ensaun: And she's starting to do a lot more coaching sessions than she was using the first few times she will. First of all, before she even would. Go to the [00:08:00] session. And I'm referring a bunch of my clients to her. She is like, I can tell she's anxious. She is like stressed out. And then I'm just trying to get her, I'm like, you'll be fine.
Faisal Ensaun: You'll be good. Just go do it. And so she will go with all the sweats and everything. She will go do it. And she comes out of it. She's like, I think that went better than I thought. I'm like, okay, great. And then the second session, same exact process. Third session, same exact process. And, and like. As a coach, I could go dig deeper and be like, Hey, what, what's happening?
Faisal Ensaun: What, what do you feel? To be honest, I didn't even go to it. And first of all, I'm not her coach. So I don't want to be, I've tried that doesn't work.
Faisal Ensaun: Second, I just encourage for the most part, I was like, you'll be good. I think you're better than you think. And then she would go do it. And then she's the one who gives me the evidence. She's like, I think like, I think that was a brilliant session. And sometimes the session wouldn't be that good. I mean, like, I think maybe they went better than you think.
Faisal Ensaun: And she would listen to the recording. She'd be like, yeah, I think it's good. Or she would hear back from the client, [00:09:00] despite the fact that you would think that it was such a bad session. She's like, Oh, that completely changed my perspective. And something happened and I've never gone through a process like that.
Faisal Ensaun: And then I'll be like, see, see, so she's accumulating evidence as she's doing this. I don't need to do anything other than just get her to go into that situation over and over. And after about 15 sessions or so, I remember that it hit a point and in the past few months where she's like, I'm like, how do you feel?
Faisal Ensaun: She's like, I'm okay. I'm good. And sometimes she's like, I'm looking forward to this. There was like a shift that started happening happening in there. Now, is she still anxious at times? Like sometimes I'm anxious about my sessions and I've done this for years. That's okay. But that, that work of actually just putting yourself and doing the thing gives your mind evidence that, Hey, you can do this.
Faisal Ensaun: And Yes, you can do the background work of dealing with the beliefs and all that stuff, but this actually helps you develop a new belief while [00:10:00] those old beliefs might still be there. And the thing that you feed the most is the thing that grows.
Sheri Fluellen: So an additional perspective to that as well is I don't want a coach who is highly confident, but doesn't have the experience to back it up.
Sheri Fluellen: Yeah. Because that is just ego. That is narcissism. That is an inflated sense of ability and self like I don't want that. So I actually think it's healthy to have that level of self doubt in the beginning. Anytime, you know, whether you're starting or whether you're leveling up and, and increasing or improving or shifting something in your business, that self doubt, I think actually is highly functional because it, it, you can harness it to do the work.
Sheri Fluellen: To give yourself the evidence that you can do it and that, that you can be good at it. And it's also the motivation to continue to get better. So you're not complacent as a coach, which is easy to do. I, there's plenty of things in life [00:11:00] where, and I think I got this way, even as a psychologist, I got to a level where I was good and I'm like, ah, good enough.
Sheri Fluellen: Right. And so like, I. Part of that was I was also managing other people. And so like, I was like, well, that's good enough. I'm just going to let it set it and forget it. Now work on that skill set anymore. Cause I'm working on other skill sets, but who wants somebody that's like tapped out and they're, they're like growth, like that's the exact opposite.
Sheri Fluellen: That I think every coach that every good coach that I've been involved in, they don't want to tap out in their, in their growth. They're wanting to constantly grow. That's why we're coaches is we help other people grow. So there's this whole except like there's this whole uh, just path of normalcy in growth and it's having some self doubt.
Sheri Fluellen: And I just. It's normal and it's functional. And so I think even the perspective that it shouldn't be there is, is [00:12:00] unhealthy and un unhelpful anyway.
Faisal Ensaun: Yeah, I, I completely agree. And, and to be honest, I mean, including me when I started out, I, I did have a little bit of an ego around this. I know that's unimaginable to think , but, but the way I thought about it is like, 'cause I got a couple of evidence, points of evidence, but then in my mind I'm like, I'm a really good coach.
Faisal Ensaun: But then here was my thought process. I'm a really good coach. Why aren't people hiring me? And there's a huge disconnection in that process because I hadn't done enough. I hadn't helped served enough people to even know if I was a good coach or not. I might have worked with one or two people. That's not enough evidence.
Faisal Ensaun: so What ended up happening the time that that's switched around is when I started working with more and more people when I started actually becoming. And that was by necessity that I needed to do this because I tried so many other things didn't work. I'm like, okay, I just need my job as a coach. And this is for any coach that's starting out or in the beginning stages.
Faisal Ensaun: Your [00:13:00] job is not to think so much about, Hey, I need to charge people. I need to, your job is to whatever spots you have in your calendar to fill it with calls. That's your job. If you can fill your calendar with enough coaching calls, and you're actually helping people that will give you the evidence. You need to move your business forward.
Faisal Ensaun: And that's exactly what I did. I started filling my calendar. And as I started doing them, something that came up that is very important for the, for the human ego to experience, which is called being humble.
Faisal Ensaun: things like I did not know how to, I realized I couldn't navigate certain things. Somebody will talk about a challenge and I would go in a certain direction. I would get blocked and it's like, I don't, I don't know how to move this conversation. Then I'd be like, how do I do this? And I would listen to the call.
Faisal Ensaun: I'm like, okay, I don't know how to what, so I would go talk to some other coach. I will read a book. Like it helped me started to learn. There will be a lot of places I would get stuck. And as I did more and more calls, I realized, holy shit, this is not easy. And I don't think I'm a good coach until I've done more and more of [00:14:00] these.
Faisal Ensaun: And so I started doing more and more and more. And, and the more I've done to this, even today, I got off like it was the first time with this. I've done this before, but with with another family, I was doing a whole group session. And I was a little bit nervous because I want to do good. I want to help them.
Faisal Ensaun: I want to be able, but I don't know how they would react. I had already done, had a conversation with each of the family members, but I didn't know how they would react to each other. And, and some of them were closed off. Some of them were open. It was very interesting as I went, the beginning was, I could tell, I could see my doubt was coming in, but I was trying to engage them.
Faisal Ensaun: So I had to deal with my own thoughts. Before I even was, it took about 15 minutes of the session to like start to pull more people in to the conversation as I started to see that their, their sharing got better. But in this is after hundreds of sessions that I've done like this. And I didn't even I wasn't fully confident that I knew that I would figure it out, but I didn't know what was going to happen.[00:15:00]
Faisal Ensaun: But actually, that's the reason why we do this work. Somebody asked Brennan Bershara is like, how do you get on stage like so confidently all this stuff? Like, how did you do that? His answer to this day, I remember he said, like, you know, the day that I don't feel the a little bit of anxiety, a little bit of stress around being on stage is probably the day I will stop doing this work, which means that I don't care about this.
Faisal Ensaun: And so that's the other piece of it is that. You need to keep doing this work. And as a coach, it's your job to get, keep getting better. And if you have a thought process that you're not getting clients because you're a good coach, you just doesn't don't understand some other things. It's probably not real.
Faisal Ensaun: It's probably because you're, you haven't talked to enough people and you're not inviting enough people to coaching conversations.
Sheri Fluellen: I love that part of the value. Well, I think it's significant part of the value of being in a community of coaches, which the coaching mastery community is it's a, it's a community, it's an implementation community of international coaches that we give each other such good feedback.[00:16:00]
Sheri Fluellen: And no matter which side you're on. I've been on both I've been on the self doubt. And then I've had coaches speak into me and say. You're better than you think you are. And it took a while and it took a lot of hearing that in some of these situations for me to be like, Oh, okay. So let me lean into my experience a little bit more and just kind of ignore that feeling of self doubt a little bit more.
Sheri Fluellen: And then there have been other times where I, you know, I'm like, I got this. I can totally do this. And then afterwards I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was, you know, like I had more confidence that was, that was not deserved. But, but being in a group of coaches that are able to speak to both of those sides, you're you have a lot more skill set than you give yourself credit for.
Sheri Fluellen: And also how like. There's some, some things for you to learn and here, let's learn them together. Let's, you know, there's people around me that are also trying to learn those things. I would say the biggest, the biggest learning curve for me kind of in the most recent was shifting from [00:17:00] largely doing individual work to doing group work.
Sheri Fluellen: And I remember saying at the very beginning of all of that, I'm like, I don't, I don't do good at managing lots of different people. I remember that specifically because I have memories of doing groups where like one, one person would interact a certain way and would like dominate. And like, I was, I'm much more of like a passive.
Sheri Fluellen: Maybe that's not quite the right word, but I'm, I'm very reflective. I kind of observe what's going on and I'm not like super aggressive in, in sessions and like trying to manage and direct people. And so often I would feel like people are just running over me and they're just overtake. That was all a skillset thing.
Sheri Fluellen: And so the more that I've done it, the better I've gotten. And so now I'm like, yeah, I can jump into any group and, and, you know, I think I can do pretty good with it and, and help people leave the group experience you know, with something that they can take away after that. But that was just literally practice and doing reps and getting better at the skills.
Sheri Fluellen: It wasn't anything else. And so then my confidence as a result has improved. [00:18:00] And so it wasn't, I came into this thinking I'm, you know, all that in a bag of chips. It was, I had to earn that. Right in my own mind to be self confident. So, but in the whole journey, that self doubt had a function. Cause I'm like, ah, I don't know that I'm good at this, so I better figure something out and which propelled me to then get support, to ask a lot of questions, to be, to, to observe things, to, to learn, I mean, there's just so many things in that process.
Sheri Fluellen: So let that self doubt motivate you to getting the skills that then help. kind of erase that self doubt a little bit
Faisal Ensaun: more. Yeah. Yeah. And you also, I love this and you also highlighted another point in there that's really profound. Coaches also tend to have this other thing. I've talked to way too many coaches.
Faisal Ensaun: I spent about a week with 500 something coaches. So, so you hear certain things and I've heard these things so [00:19:00] many times. So for example, coaching will bring personality types a lot. You're like, Oh, well. Well, I'm a highly sensitive person or I'm introverted or somehow they've become the cool things to be.
Faisal Ensaun: I'm not saying people are not that or and I'm introverted as well. Like, by the way, there are, there's a spectrum there. So I'm about 60 percent introverted. If you look at the personality if you do, if I do a personality test, but there are certain times I don't feel like that. I feel very extroverted.
Faisal Ensaun: There are certain times I do not want to have anything to do with people. So my introverted side comes up. There are certain times where I want to just dance and do stuff. It's like have fun and joke around, poke around with people. Certain times I want to challenge people. There are different sides to us.
Faisal Ensaun: So a lot of times what coaches tend to do, they box themselves in without realizing it. And in areas that it's on, they also box their clients into. And I've had multiple conversations, like when you kind of And what you highlighted there, Sherry, is that a lot of what we, a lot of what we're doing [00:20:00] are actually skill sets that you develop.
Faisal Ensaun: I am introverted, but I had to develop the skill set of speaking a certain way, or talking to people a certain way. That was a hard skill set for me to learn, but once I understood how it works, it was just a skill set. There are skill sets around sales, around negotiation, there are skill sets around speaking.
Faisal Ensaun: It doesn't matter what kind of personality you have, you can develop them. But when you attach your identity to something specific, forget the fluidity and that the way our mind can expand in different ways, and it's something we think that coaches should know. But the amount of times that I've heard this, that, hey, well, I'm this, I'm a highly sensitive person.
Faisal Ensaun: I can't do this. I'm introverted. I can't do this. I'm extroverted. I can't do this. So can you learn? And if you're open to learning and if you're open to challenging yourself, you can, you can show up in a lot of different ways that you didn't think you were before, and you will freak yourself out in the process.
Sheri Fluellen: I love that. And what, what I'm hearing is that even so [00:21:00] let's use the example of a new coach. Even a new coach coming into the coaching world, they may feel a significant amount of self doubt. But one thing that I have, I have worked with some of the, some coaches on is what are the skill sets that you have in life already?
Sheri Fluellen: And how can those show up in coaching? Because a lot of times we, I've noticed that other coaches don't necessarily think that way. I've worked I've seen you do this too with investors that you know, an engineer now shifts into becoming an investor and they feel. A lot of self doubt good grief, like as an engineer, how analytical and you see, I mean, there's such good skill sets in their experience as an engineer that directly translate into being an investor.
Sheri Fluellen: Well, as a coach, you have a lot of life experiences and things that you have grown in. That are directly transportable into your coaching business. So give yourself some credit, recognize those things, because that can [00:22:00] help give you a little bit more self confidence enough to push through the times when you feel that doubt in the areas that maybe you legitimately do need to grow in your skillset.
Sheri Fluellen: So it's, it's not an all or nothing. As, as I was kind of hearing you say, if I saw that, you know, there's different things that you might be good at and different things that you're not, and just recognize and celebrate that you're, it's not all self doubt. There's really something you've got to use.
Faisal Ensaun: Yeah, I love that.
Faisal Ensaun: And the things like I believe in amplifying the things that we're good at and being open to the things that we're not good at to improve in. And maybe you won't get it to 100%, but you will get it to a certain amount that will help you become functional enough. So you can bring other people around you who are much better at that.
Faisal Ensaun: So you can, when you grow as a business or something, so they can help you in that process. There are certain things I love being and doing. There are certain things I don't, but in the process of building a business, I had to develop a bunch of skill sets that I didn't even like in the process. For example, I didn't [00:23:00] like being on video, but I had to learn.
Faisal Ensaun: I, I'm, I knew that I needed to learn if I wanted to do the thing that was connected to my mission. I wanted to directly look at people and talk to them, which was the scariest thing for me to do. Not just the easier thing for me to, to have done would have been to just write, become a writer and write blogs.
Faisal Ensaun: Because that would have been money. I'm very analytical. I can think I can go deeper. I can do a lot of things. But then the scary thing would be is to talk to people now. I can't shut up. So that's a but that's it's funny how that happened in that process because I had to be open to it. So if we were to summarize all that we're saying here is that as you're jumping into this new path or as you're trying to develop your identity as a new coach, ample work, bring out, bring the things that you've worked on already, your strengths, be open to what you're growing into.
Faisal Ensaun: If you have doubt, keep moving forward. Even with that doubt, if you have fears, keep moving forward with those fears. If you have this [00:24:00] connection with the process, keep going forward because ultimately what matters is your purpose. What are you trying to do? And if you can keep taking steps forward, despite those things, You have the ability to make those decisions consistently.
Faisal Ensaun: And as you do this, you develop the evidence to prove to yourself that you can build this out. And if
Sheri Fluellen: you're not sure how to do that on your own, I don't blame you doing it on your own is hard. And at one, at some level is I quite think is going to be impossible. Join the coaching mastery community.
Sheri Fluellen: First step is join the Facebook group. We got lots of free, amazing content. If you want a lot more depth in the support, we've got other opportunities. But just join the Facebook group, step one coaching mastery community. You will get a lot of support there. You'll start to be able to interact with coaches that are doing things and kind of start to see things.
Sheri Fluellen: And it'll be an amazing, amazing next step for you.
Faisal Ensaun: Yes, and we're excited to see you on the other side. Make sure you like and share this. A lot of coaches need to hear [00:25:00] this. That's our mission to help them understand that they don't need to do this alone, and they don't need to feel like they can't do this.
Faisal Ensaun: And we have solutions to a lot of the things that they're trying to do. So make sure you share this with your friends, colleagues that you've connected with. And until our next conversation, hope you have an incredible day. Bye.
Sheri Fluellen: Bye.
Narrator: listening to the coach's journey podcast.